Burrows and UFOs: Ancient Treasures/Burrows Cave ezboard forum-posts of video transcripts by Jeff Heck

Heck's posts on Nov. 19, 2005 were quickly typed and minor corrections have been made for clarity (spelling, capitalization, etc.).

Colonel Russ Burrows and the Cave of Doom
Transcribed by Jeff Heck, © 2005; reprinted with permission.

Part One:
This "lecture" was given by Russ on April 24th 1991. It was recorded by Bloomington Community Access Television since it was done on the campus of Indiana University. Here's the highlights from this talk. I'm watching and typing at the same time, so bear with me if it's long and if there are a lot of typos. Also, I'm breaking this into different posts, so bear with me.

Russ talks about his working with biblical archaeologist Jackson Judge for about three years on the cave, which means Judge would have become involved in 1988. He mentions that Joe Mahan introduced him to Mr. Judge.

Russ talks up Joe Mahan and refers to his book called "The Secret." The Secret deals with the Yuchi (pronounced you-chee) indian tribe. This tribe came from the southern US. He mentions Yuchi chief Samuel Brown who had passed away a few years earlier. Samuel Brown stated the original name of the tribe (no way I can spell the following so I'll go with how they sound. First pronounced zo-ya-ha-wayne-o, they were also called the you-staff-a-wayne-o) which meant upper or first people. The prior name meant sun filled.

Russ states that what they have in the cave over in southern Illinois is the remains of the ancient sun kings from the Yuchi tribe. He states there is no question about this now. They know who they are. The question is how did they get there. He talks of how the rivers used to be the interstate highways of the country and then explains how they could have used rivers to get from southern US to southern Illinois and the area of where the cave is. He says they came via the Mississippi to the Ohio to the Wabash to the little Wabash to the Skillet Fork. He says the cave is within a quarter mile of a certain point on the Skillet Fork river. He says it's a direct waterway there.

He then explains how someone from the 7th century BC could have gotten there. He explains that the Phoenicians had ships that could have gotten here from Africa to the US via currents, winds, etc... He feels this tribe originated from Africa.

Russ states that the reason these folks were coming here was to get copper to take back to Africa and make bronze. There's a place called poverty point in Louisiana where there are stockpiles of native ore, copper, which came from somewhere north on the Mississippi. Where they don't know. From this evidence, it's believed the ore was mined north of Louisiana, stockpiled and loaded to be taken back to Egypt or wherever to make bronze. Something happened and nobody knows what but these folks decided to stay in the land they call Shemal, or the north land, they don't want to leave. Some catastrophe happened and these folks dispersed into other tribes of Native Americans and that was the end of it.

He believes they were here for a reason other than the ore. He believes they were here to provided a burial place for their religious leaders, the ancient sun kings. The odd thing is that the cave was sealed from the inside. He states he has seen human remains in the cave. He then relates the story of falling into a hole of how he found the cave and was lucky to survive because of the stone lid not working right when he fell. (In other talks Russ states the hole he fell into was a death pit. You fall in and the lid seals you there)

While in this pit, Russ saw something he shouldn't have seen. He got out of the pit then went back down. He relates the story of the face in the pit watching a doorway that was sealed with cut and fitted stones sealed so tightly you can't fit a knife blade in it.

This is the end of part one. So far so good, sounds legit and interesting.
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Part Two:
Russ now goes to the new book by Mahan "The Zoya or North American Sun Kings." Again, sorry for any misspelling of tribal names, I'm going by sound.

In this book Chief Brown told Dr. Mahan that the burial site of the ancient sun kings would be found in the middle or Midwest United States. He didn't know where it was. He also said there would be a sentinel guarding it. Russ says the face he saw was the sentinel guarding the tomb. All the evidence presented to Mahan and Cyclone Covey does tell them who the people in the cave are. Russ says the interesting thing is the sentinel has a spirit connected with it. He further states there are spirits in the cave. There are a lot of spirits in the cave. He's heard them and felt them. He doesn't know why they are there and he can't answer that question. Are they protecting the site?

Russ said he almost created a new exit when he opened one of the burial crypts, he states he didn't disturb it, but stuck his head in and a woman gave him a smack and he heard a voice say "Where have you been for so long?" He then tells of a time when he was in earlier and decided to nap for a bit. He heard rustling noises and such which woke him up. He determined they were voices and thought he had been followed. He then tells of when he turned on his helmet light the voices went away. He turned the light off and they came back.

Russ then relates, from his prior training from working with the spirit world or the occult or whatever you want to call it, that he needed to make peace with the spirits. He was able to do this. He tells that if he had not made peace with the spirits that they would have killed him. He then relates that he feels the spirits protect him everywhere he goes. He has no idea why, but he was told by folks he knows that for some reason he was probably the one selected to find this cave. He says he has a hard time with it because he only fell into the hole and that he should have kept his mouth shut about the whole thing because he wouldn't have been called a fraud and a few other things like that.

He says the fact is his “ghosties,” his name for them, and him were able to make peace and they've helped him.

Russ goes on to what he found. He starts with burials. End of part two.
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Part Three:
On to the crypts. They are about 12 feet deep and 8 feet wide and 7 to 8 feet high. They are cut out of solid stone into the wall. It's not a cave, it's a cavern. He's been a little over 500 feet in and he's nowhere near the end of it yet.

The first crypt has a stone beard or beer (I can't make out exactly what he says but it sounds like beard or beer. I will call it a beard, I think it's a type of ledge cut out of the wall.) on the northern wall. The beard was left and the body was laid on it. He thinks the tomb was made prior to the death of the occupant. This tomb holds a man put away in grand style. He's wearing pounded copper and "other" metal, i.e. gold. He says there are many things in the crypt telling him he's an important person. There are bronze axes, spears, jars that are Coptic in style. One of the jars has a whole bunch of scrolls in them.

In the next tomb is a woman and two children. He is sure they were related to this man because they were sacrificed. The woman has a spear point through her heart and the children had fractured skulls. There is a marble axe laying with the kids that matches the skull injuries of the kids.

Russ theorizes that they were killed because her husband died, who was the leader of the group, and she was sacrificed probably due to some type of leadership issues. He states this is his theory. He then tells that there are 13 burial crypts that he know of. He has only opened three and did not damage or anything. He also said he had his shamans approval. Russ is Native American and a member of a medicine lodge and he is a shaman with this lodge. Russ' shaman said that these folks were not Native American and that he wasn't concerned with what went on because of this fact.

He told Russ that these people were known as the men from the east. These were folks from ancient people who had traveled to the North American continent years ago. He did not get into any more detail than this on this topic.

Russ talks of the last crypt he looked at which was sealed a bit differently. It has a round stone disc that rolled into place, similar to the Christian method of closing a tomb. Russ states he has found nothing Christian in the cave so far. Russ got the stone rolled back. In the middle of the room is a large stone box containing a casket with a mummy in the coffin. Russ is feeling around in the rotting decay and finds the death mask. He then relates his panic of how he was worried about breathing in something from the embalming process that might have made him ill.

Russ says the last one if a fantastic burial. He then talks of how excited the academics will be to investigate this crypt. He then says that he will be long gone from this cave because he wants to go find another and he knows of a couple he wants to go and check out.

He then goes into more detail about how the last tomb is lined with slabs of pure white marble which have been tested by a cutrologist (again not sure of the spelling) at the Field Museum in Chicago and his written statement he said it's a finely crystalline marble not found in Illinois or adjacent states. So where's it from? Russ says the only place this type of marble comes from is the Mediterranean. The only question is what part of the Mediterranean did these folks come from and why did they load a ship full of rocks and such to get here. He says it was used as ballast and then used the marble stones for something else because all of the slabs have portraits carved into them. Classic Egyptian relief but the characters are not all Egyptian.

The theory coming out of the University of Wisconsin is that these people were Tibetan. If that proves true it then relates back to the book by Joe Mahan "The Secret" where the Yuchi claim to have come from Tibet. Russ says the answer is there and that he doesn't have the answer. Russ then states the answer probably won't happen in his lifetime because you're looking at a tremendous excavation. He says the amount of material in there is substantial and that every scoop has to be analyzed and screened.

End of part three.
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Part Four:
The End. It's now question and answer time from the audience in attendance.

Russ has been asked if he's shown the cave to anyone and where is the land located, state, federal, or private.

The answer is the find is on private property. Russ states the problem now is it's illegal for him to go into the cave due to the new state law. He would end up in jail for a long time. The other trouble he has stems from one group, the Epigraphic Society. The Epigraphic Society claims to be experts in ancient scripts and language and can decipher things, he references Barry Fell. The trouble from these folks is Barry Fell claims that some of the artifacts and such, photos, etc... were copies of his copyrighted material. He states this has been a problem for 9 years. For 9 years the Epigraphic Society has tried to prove the cave fraudulent.

Russ stated that at the 91 ISAC conference in Georgia he would give them both barrels about the cave. Russ goes on to say that Barry Fell has caused the delay in the excavation of the cave for 5 or 6 years. Russ states that Mr. Fell actually has delayed the excavation. He has prevented anything to move forward because he knows that Russ will prove that Barry Fell will be proven wrong. Russ feels when Fell is proven wrong the Epigraphic Society will be out of business. He says Barry Fell will be proven to be a fraud himself.

Next question is how has Fell specifically stopped the investigation.

The answer is archaeologists and anthropologists are very jealous of their reputations, rightfully so. A little stigma can be bad for the career. Fell says it's fraud, so no one will investigate because of the comment from Fell.

Next question is this doesn't make sense because if you have all this proof it would blow Fell out of the water.

Russ defers to Jackson Judge for the answer. It's hard to hear Mr. Judge because he's not wearing a microphone but Judge states the site is priceless and it's not worth the risk. He states Russ is the witness and he's the one who has brought back the artifacts. Judge states he has verified them without having to go there. Judge then states that the state archaeologist should be there right now, but where is he? Russ chuckles at this point. Judge also asks where is the Smithsonian, National Geographic? Someone starts coughing but Judge says Russ is about to change world history. More coughing and I can't make out anymore from Judge.

The next question is how many people have been there.

Russ says six people have been there, five other than him. They have all been sworn to secrecy. Judge then comments that the state of Illinois tried to take Russ to court to get the location. Russ comments they tried. Judge then says something about the state archaeologist would cover this up if he knew because it goes against what he's been taught and saying all of his life about how things happened in the US. In other words, anything that would be different than history would be buried. It's a conspiracy.

Next question deals with pictures or video of the cave.

Russ says there has been some photos. He took roll after roll of film with no images. He had to ask permission from the spirits to allow photos to be taken. They said okey dokey and they took 8 photos from inside the cave.

Russ then goes back to a prior question of how the conspiracy/belief system could be challenged by the reality of the situation. Another person asks how the Epigraphic Society could have so much power.

Russ says that Fell is a pioneer in the epigraphic field. He says Fell changed over time from scholar to something else. Now, Russ feels Fell thinks he is God.

Russ then states that on April 2, 1992, will be the starting date for the excavation of the cave. Until that time, no one will go there. Russ states he hasn't been there for over a year.

Next question is when this will be resolved.

Russ says they no longer need to worry about the Epigraphic Society. The contact with Mahan and ISAC has been good. They've been to Vincennes, Indiana and seen the artifacts. Russ states the artifacts cannot be questioned. When you look at them you know they are real. Little by little Fell and his crowd will be pushed out. Russ knows of other sites belittled by Fell that are legit that will become real.

Next question is who gets custody of the scrolls.

Answer is don't look at me. Legally Russ states he will get custody of them. He is asked what he'll do with it. He doesn't know. He states that everything in the cave belongs to him. It was deeded to him. He doesn't know who he'll give them to.

In closing the talk, Russ is asked to estimate the wealth in the cave. In monetary value he says 70 to 80 million dollars.

Jeff followed this shortly afterwards with a posting announcing another transcription:

I have another tape to transcribe from either June or July of 91. Russ again is talking to a group of folks at Indiana University. This tape was also done by the Bloomington Community Access Televison folks. I'll look this over soon and go from there.

I hope this has shed some light on things and let you compare things said here to things said then. Some interesting points I find are the mention of the state archaeologist, the cave being deeded to Russ, a definite start date for excavation, and who the folks were in the cave.

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Another Russ Talk
Transcribed by Jeff Heck, © 2005; reprinted with permission.

Page One
The next talk takes place in June or July of 91. It’s not really a talk, but a Q and A session.

It starts out with Kerry Dean, the host of the IU symposium, talking about how Russ, Colonel Burrows, came to them under a totally unrelated manner. He doesn’t get into the circumstance, but he says they learned about the cave during this prior contact. He says maybe a cave is boring, but not if you find artifacts in that cave that could rewrite the history books or rewrite the Bible. He then brings up Russ. He says if you want to know why it needs to be rewritten, then here’s the man to ask and he’s got a few minutes to talk to you.

Russ then gets up. He is immediately asked where it is approximately. He answers south central Illinois. He says he found it April 2nd 1982. Not found but fell in it.

The next question is what’s so different about the valley the cave was found in than the rest of the surrounding terrain.

Answer is there is nothing living that Russ has ever seen in this valley. No birds, rabbits, squirrels, nothing. He’s seen animals go around it. He’s seen deer come to the edge of this valley and walk about two miles up and around the valley and continue on the path they had been going.

Next question is how heavy is the vegetation

Answer is the valley floor fairly heavy. It doesn’t prohibit walking, it’s just heavy.

Next question is does the vegetation differ from other areas.

Answer is it’s really no different. The different thing of it is the silence of the valley.

Next question is do you have a theory as to why animals avoid it.

Answer is the theory, now it’s not a theory but fact, that the valley is the burial place of the ancient sun gods. It’s haunted. The last living sun king for the Yuchi tribe, Daniel Brown, foretold of finding a cave that would contain the history of the Yuchi tribe and where they came from. It has done that. They came from Tibet, not Africa. The other part of the Yuchi tribe is still there. Chief Brown warned Joe Mahan to be very careful because the cave would be guarded by a sentinel. What did he mean? Stone folks or spirits. Russ says he can tell you first hand they exist and they are nice and friendly until someone decides to use this to their own advantage.

An example is that originally there were six people involved with the cave. Two are now alive. Myself and another man. The other four who tried to use this cave to their own advantage are dead.

Hmmm, murdering spirits. Second part is coming up.
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More Russ
Page Two:

Next question is you are the one who discovered it.

Answer is he rediscovered it. It was discovered some 30 centuries ago.

Next question is is there water.

Answer is yes; there is a creek in the middle that is usually dry. In the northwest corner is a sinkhole that usually maintains the same amount of water. It’s a deep sinkhole.

Next question from Kerry Dean. What will happen over the next few years to verify this to the American people? There are connections here to Christianity, to Columbus, the Vikings, etc…how are you going to verify it? How will we know what you say is true? Will there be studies made by archaeological organizations, colleges?

Answer is yes, but things have changes drastically in the past month. While he was at the ISAC conference in Columbus, Dr. Cyrus Gordon stood up and interrupted him and said before the conference this is the greatest archaeological discovery in the history or man. This outweighs King Tut’s tomb. It would prove equal or exceed the value of King Tut’s tomb. He said he’s going to redub the name Burrow’s Cave, Valley of the Kings of North America. Russ said this made his day. Then, that night at the dinner, Dr. Gordon was the speaker and he said the same thing. This time, Russ had former president Jimmy Carter as a witness, I guess he was there too.

Ok, I'm pausing here. Russ asks why do this. Here's why. This is the greatest archaeological find in the history of man? Outweighs King Tut's tomb! It should be renamed the Valley of the Kings of North America. RUSS, YOU SERIOUSLY ASK WHY I"M DOING THIS????

As I've always said, and Dr. Gordon, IF true, it would rival the greatest finds ever made. It "WOULD" alter history. That's why I was interested to begin with. I was at these talks. I was to be involved with the expeditions and such. It's such a terrible, terrible loss if this is true and Russ, Alzheimer’s or not, it's a tragedy that YOU caused. Not me, not Mahan, not Jackson, not Fell, but you.

Page three to come. Also, the way Russ talks at these conferences, man, he's smooth, very, very smooth and very believable.
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More Russ
Page Three:

Picking up where we left off.

A few weeks later Dr. Gordon sent Russ a letter saying he would be in southern Illinois and he was going to the cave. He didn’t ask if he could go, he just said he was going. Russ then introduces Jackson Judge to the audience, and relates what he told Jackson about this. Russ said he wanted Dr. Gordon in his corner because he was a top epigrapher. However, there are four people who are part of the Burrows Cave organization, a board of folks, and he took it to them. Three were for the visit and one, James Scherz, was against the visit. He then took the request to the owner of the property. The owner then presented it to the security people of Burrows Cave because security is very tight. They said no. They said Russ you haven’t been allowed there for two years yourself, why would we let you take him? (Mind you, Russ makes not mention of this at the earlier talk. No boards, no security, no mention of his being kept away from the cave by security or anyone else. In the talk a few months prior, it’s all his.)

Russ then tells Dr. Gordon he can’t go. He explains that no one can over ride any decision made by security. However, he explains that an expedition is planned for the spring and you are invited to that. The next thing Russ relates is that Gordon publishes a letter in the Louisiana Mound Society Newsletter that says Burrow’s Cave is a figment of Russ’ imagination. Russ wrote him a letter saying to stick it. Russ said that he didn’t care what Gordon thought and the decision was made to excavate the cave privately. It would not be excavated in the academic world. They have hired anthropologist, archaeologists and that they would do excavation. They are very credible people and will do the reporting and everyone else will hang their head.

Next question is Russ, you had to take it to the owner, last time you were here you said you were the owner.

Russ says he owns the cave, not the ground. In order to get to the cave, you have to cross the ground. In order to get there, Russ said he has to make an improvement to the cave. He has to use an easement to do this and he doesn’t want to. Right now they have the very best security in the world protecting the cave and he doesn’t want to do anything to jeopardize that.

Next question is how do you keep security guards out.

They work for the man who owns the property. That man is probably one of the most powerful people in that part of the country. You don’t cross him. He pays them well so they are not tempted to do something dumb.

Next question is when you go to excavate the site what will keep the spirits guarding the place, how will you do this without deaths and other things happening.

Answer is you all will think I’m certifiable, but he has made an agreement with the spirits.

Next comment from audience is you did it before and were able to take thousands of artifacts out of the cave.

Russ says yes, with their permission.

Question is when did you take the artifacts out of the cave.

Russ says 1983, 84, and 85.

End of page three.
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More Russ
Page Four:

Next question is you had to remove all the silt and sand to get into the cave, have you put it back?

Russ says no.

Question is the cave is in the same condition as when you excavated it.

Answer is no one has been in the cave for better than two years now.

Question is someone other than yourself has been in the cave.

Answer is oh yes. An anthropologist, a couple of archaeologist have been in there, a mining/safety engineer.

Question, the artifacts that were taken, did the spirits tell you which ones to take.

Answer is no. Let me illustrate. Of the thirteen tombs, I’ve looked in three of them. The second tomb contains the skeleton of a woman and two children. All three have been sacrificed. The woman had a solid gold spear point through her rib. (Yes, he says solid gold.) It would have penetrated the heart. The kids were killed by a marble axe. The second time he stuck his head in the block he removed someone laid a kiss on his cheek and he heard a woman’s voice, he’s not sure if he heard it of if it was inside his head, she said where have you been for so long. This is like the first tape. He then realized that he heard that inside the crypt. The next experience was in his home. He has at least one of the spirits with him at all times. He says there is one with him now at the talk he’s giving. He honestly believes they protect him. He has had some instances over the past few years that he says there’s no way he would have survived had he not had their protection. .

Question is like what.

Answer is bad stuff, which he’ll discuss with the person privately. He then says there’s something peculiar about it. He then tells the crowd that he believes in ghost.

Question is how do you communicate with the spirits. Telepathy or another way.

Answer is no, not telepathy, he can’t do that. He more or less has a conversation just like he’s having now.

Question is so you hear them.

He says I think I do, it sounds like I do. Whether it’s inside….it sounds like I do. I hear it.

End of page four.
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More Russ
Page Five:

Aye Corumbá!!!!! The end. Hang on to your hats for this one, especially towards the bottom of the page. Man, have I forgotten a lot over the years. Here's a hint, it has something to do with blue.

Question is about the artifacts. Russ, you really had a problem with one of the people who died, selling them off. Were you able to recover the artifacts.

Answer is 123 out of 1,993.

Question, where are the rest of them

Answer is that lousy, no good lying thief and dog sold them.

Question, but he’s dead now?

Answer, he’s dead now, right. He sold, let me rephrase that, there’s1,163 artifacts missing. That’s a lot of artifacts. But he’s, you’re right, he’s dead. All I can say is if the fires out in hell I’ll give the devil a match.

Question, I heard it could change The Bible?

Answer, Kerry might be over exaggerating there, but I don’t know. Possibly Jackson could help us with this one. I think It’s Rameses the second. His people were at war with some people, Syria or someone, and they were losing. So Rameses the second peoples took up his body and his burial and went somewhere. No one knows for sure, do they Jackson?

Jackson says I’m not sure if we’re talking about Rameses or not but I would say there are some severe implications in biblical archaeology in this. Everything is preliminary so far, the Assyrian invasion came (pronunciation time again, forgive me) if you’re talking about Shy-Shack, the pharaoh Shez-On, we’ve got an incredible time span we have to work with.

Russ says finally I’ll take a couple of minutes to get away from the cave and go to my observation of the photographs. (THIS IS THE TALK WHERE RUSS WAS DEBUNKING BIG FOOT PHOTOS EARLIER IN THE EVENING, THIS PART WAS NOT ON TAPE AND HE IS REVISITING IT BEFORE CLOSING. I’M INCLUDING BECAUSE IT’S INTERESTING WHAT HE SAYS.) He says his last year and a half of active duty in the military was with an organization, which you all know. By law I cannot state the name of that organization.

KERRY DEAN interrupts and says I can, BLUEBOOK! Yes, Russ was part of Project Bluebook.

Russ says he was in the second group, or the scavengers they were called. After the first group went in and asked their questions, the scavengers went in and if the first group made five out of ten points of the person with their questions the scavengers went in. If they made one more point then the sanitation crew would come along and he would not talk about that.

Russ said his specialty was observation and study of film and photography. If you’re not trained in this area you wouldn’t notice the obvious.

Kerry Dean says they’re out of time and thanks Russ for the talk. Russ closes by plugging the book Mystery Cave of Many Faces and how you can buy it.

Interesting stuff wouldn’t you say?????? I hope these have been a help.

They have, Jeff; thanks.

Return to Come Out of the Cave, Russ!